Cash Flow Champs Real Estate Podcast

Neal Bawa is CEO / Founder at UGro and Grocapitus, two commercial real estate investment companies. Neal’s companies use cutting-edge real estate analytics technology to source and acquire OR build large Commercial properties across the U.S., for nearly 800 investors. The current portfolio of over 4,800 units, with an AUM value (upon completion) of over $1 Billion. Neal shares his team’s unique and cutting-edge real estate data methodologies to connect with geeky and nerdy (or just data-driven) investors who share his vision – That Data beats gut feel by a million miles. Over 10,000 real estate investors have taken his free Real Estate Data Analytics course on udemy.com and the course has over 1,000 five-star reviews. Neal speaks at dozens of real estate conferences across the country and virtually, on the Internet. Over 5,000 investors attend his multifamily webinar series each year and hundreds have attended his Magic of Multifamily boot camps. His Facebook and meetup groups have tens of thousands of investors.

What You’re Going to Learn:

Embarking on the Path to Multifamily Real Estate
Sharing Insights for Financial Success
Strategies for Syndicators and LP Investors to Navigate through Challenges
Overcoming Negative PR and Building a Strong Investor Base
A Piece of Advice by Neal Bawa

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Show Highlights

Embarking on the Path to Multifamily Real Estate

Prashant Kumar- Tell us something unique about your background that people know or want to hear from you.

Neal Bawa- Sure. I was born slightly autistic, something that my family worked on over time, and some of those autism characteristics sort of diminished. But I have had a love for numbers throughout my life. I see numbers in everything. I see numbers when I’m walking in the morning with my wife. I’m counting the number of steps that I’m taking, looking at how many trees. My mind asks questions like how could we calculate the number of leaves on this tree that’s coming up? Or what is the number of square feet from my house to the temple that we walk to? That’s the kind of mind that I have. So I look at everything in the world in terms of numbers. This isn’t a heartless way of looking at things. It’s actually a very interesting and fun way of looking at the world. Sometimes it’s very annoying when I’m trying to get to sleep, but that’s the way I look at everything. So I’m quantifying everything in the industry. And right now, the multifamily industry is actually a very fascinating place to quantify because of the bullishness in the industry from 2021 and also from 2022. So we’re seeing the results of that over-bullishness combined with some bad luck. It’s fascinating to look at it and project what the multifamily industry will look like in one, two, or three years. So my mind is very active around that question on an ongoing basis.

Paul Senior- That’s awesome, man. Thank you so much for sharing. I want to add my voice to that and what you just shared. Of all the different industries, different industries have numbers and whatever just to kind of work and fit with your mindset, you were blessed with an awesome mind when it comes to analytics and stuff like that. Eventually, you gravitated and settled pretty much on multifamily real estate. What attracted you there, Neal?

Neal Bawa- I think taxation benefits are really the first place to start. What I saw was that I was fairly wealthy. I had already sold my technology company and the tax benefits that I see in real estate, I’ve only ever seen those kinds of benefits in one other asset class, and that is oil and gas. And what I’m finding is that the best years of oil and gas are behind them because while it remains a very potent and profitable industry, the benefits that you get in oil and gas for taxes are mostly on new wells. And we’re not digging as many new wells as we were before because most of the new energy in the world, almost half of it, is renewable energy. Right? And so because renewable energy becomes a bigger and bigger portion, those taxation benefits are going to wane away. And I see more money actually flowing into real estate over the next ten or 20 years as some of those benefits go away.

So taxation is something that investors don’t fully understand, in my mind. I’m always doing the math on post-tax, post-tax benefits, and post-tax math, right? Sometimes, 10% on a post-tax basis is more than 14% on a pretax basis, especially if you live in high-tax states like California or New York or you have a high-tax job, such as a doctor or a lawyer, right? So people that are earning a lot of money, and most of the money that’s coming into syndication is coming from those people, is coming from people living in high-tax states or having high-tax jobs. So I think taxation is the first thing.

The second piece of it is that when I look at the data for the last 70 to 80 years, the fundamental way to say this is that these four things appear to benefit the most from inflation in the United States because they are the most inflexible. These are inflexible demands. So there’s food and there’s rent, right? There’s oil and there’s healthcare. When I consider the last 70 or 80 years and what has consistently outperformed, these four things stand out as overperforming. While everyone says inflation is high right now, if you ask knowledgeable Americans about typical inflation in the last 15 years, the most common answer you’ll get is 2%. Then if you ask them about rent growth over the last 15 years, fewer people know the answer, but the right answer is potentially two to three times inflation during that timeframe. If you ask them about healthcare, the answer is five times inflation.

So, you notice that some areas are extremely inflexible. People simply need to rent, they need healthcare, and they need food. The things that we need the most tend to stay well above inflation. You can go back and look at the last ten years, the last 20 years, or the last 50 years, and you’ll notice that rents have consistently beaten inflation by a large margin. The only time rents have been negative in that timeframe was in 2009, for one single year, even though the real estate crisis lasted from 2008 to 2013.

My mind just won’t let go of this. It seems like a simple thing to say, but it’s extraordinarily powerful. Anytime you have an asset class or an industry that tends to outperform inflation by a significant margin, you are consistently growing your wealth. You’re growing it through both bad times and good times because what you’re essentially doing is balancing out the negative and positive periods.

For example, rent growth in the last twelve months in the United States was zero. That might sound bad considering inflation was 5% or 6%, depending on who you ask. You might expect rent growth to be six or 7%. But if you look at the last two years, rent growth in the United States has been 17%, while inflation has been nine. So the negative and positive periods even out.

Math on a one-year basis can be misleading, and even on a five-year basis, it can sometimes be misleading. However, when I examine any five-year timeframe over the last 50 years, the growth in rents is absolutely astonishing. This gives me an unfair advantage over any other kind of business that is not in the oil, healthcare, food, or rent industry. We have an unfair advantage over the 10,000 other industries. That’s what keeps me in real estate—unfair advantages.

Sharing Insights for Financial Success

Paul Senior- That’s awesome. So it seems like you take it upon yourself to inform others about these insights. That’s why you provide limited opportunities for investors or partners to join your deals because the average doctors and lawyers may not consider these aspects, right? It’s up to us to share this information with them so they can fully benefit from what you’ve discussed here. And it appears that you’ve been successful in doing that throughout your career so far.

Neal Bawa- Neal Bawa: I’m always curious. Every day, my mind generates hundreds of new questions, and in the past, I would search for answers on Google or ask my employees to research. These days, I ask chat GPT, and I receive better responses. However, this morning, while I was doing Pilates at 6:00 in the morning, I asked myself a question, and I want to apologize if it offends anyone. As a syndicator, investor, and data scientist, I need to know who the richest people in America are because my company will grow faster if I understand that. So the question I asked myself this morning was: “What American ethnicities are the richest?” And how do they compare to white people, right? Around 60% of Americans are white, approximately 13% are African American, and the remaining percentage consists of various other ethnicities. I was curious, and when I’m curious about a question, I first make a guess and then gather the data, right? The answer to that question was interesting and surprising. I would have thought that Chinese Americans would be significantly richer. I was looking at incomes since net worth data is more readily available. So I thought the richest people in America must be white people and Chinese people. However, it turns out the data shows something different. Here’s the data on the average income for various ethnicities in America: Whites have an average income of $77,000, Chinese Americans are lower at $70,000, and surprisingly, Filipinos are at $80,000. Then there are several ethnicities with lower incomes like Bangladeshis or Burmese. But the ethnicity that surprised me the most was Indians. Everyone else falls within the $60,000 to $80,000 range, but Indians have an average income above $100,000. So Indians are actually the wealthiest community in the United States, surpassing both white and Chinese populations. This data is useful, and some may question whether profiling communities is appropriate. But it’s legal and logical to target a community that is exceptionally wealthy and interested in real estate, especially for someone like Prashant, right? However, it may not be immediately intuitive that Indians are significantly wealthier than white and Chinese populations. Now, how am I going to utilize this data? After my Pilates session, I will search for more information online. There’s a chart on the internet that I found helpful. I instructed my team to adjust our Facebook ads to be more focused on attracting Indians. This way, we can increase the number of people interested in our offerings through our sales funnel. Do you see what I mean? Most people don’t think about these questions all the time. They may have an intuitive sense of certain things. But what sets us apart and propels us forward is continuously delving deep into the data and identifying which insights can lead to more profitability. In this case, the profit would benefit my company rather than my investors. However, imagine applying thousands of such insights over the years. The majority of the benefits will ultimately go to the investors.

Strategies for Syndicators and LP Investors to Navigate through Challenges

Prashant Kumar- So basically, Neil, what you’re saying is that Indians, as investors, are actually the leading community. They surpass both typical white Americans and Chinese investors.

Neal Bawa- Yes, they go far beyond that. So everyone falls into one cluster: Chinese, white Americans, Filipinos, and Japanese. Then there’s a significant gap, and after that, there’s only one ethnicity left, which is Indians.

Prashant Kumar- And why do you think that is? I want to delve deeper into the reasons.

Neal Bawa- The H1B visa is a big factor. The majority of people who come on the H1B visa are Indians, not Chinese. So I believe that’s a significant reason. Basically, we are selected based on our capabilities and legally enter the country. On the other hand, a significant portion of the Mexican population enters illegally, and many of them can’t work regular jobs due to their legal status. As a result, that community ends up on the lower end of the income scale. Indians, on the other hand, enter legally, and therefore we are self-selecting for success. This is just one example based on data. I could provide you with many more examples like this. The point I’m trying to make, as Paul mentioned, is that if you’re a doctor or a lawyer, you may not have the time to ask and find answers to these questions. It’s our job as syndicators to uncover these insights. I’ve been curious about cities in the United States, and the course Prashant mentioned, which currently has 12,000 students taking it and 1005-star reviews, addresses my question about which cities are best for real estate and what factors truly matter. I’m sure other people have thought about this question, but did they have the time to investigate these things? In 2020, the answer was Idaho Falls, Idaho. I can guarantee you that if I asked 1000 people on the street, not a single person would have given that answer correctly. So data surpasses gut feel by a significant margin. As we continue to grow as an industry, syndication and multifamily syndication, in particular, are still relatively young. The Jobs Act was passed in 2014, and most syndications have occurred since then. So we’re talking about an industry that is only eight years old. We’re not even teenagers yet. As we grow and learn, we will bring more value to our investors. Currently, the industry is facing its first crisis which began about twelve months ago and is worsening every month. However, this will make us more resilient and offer greater value to our investors.

Prashant Kumar: So, in your opinion, where do you think investors’ mindsets are heading, especially after recent events such as the Wall Street Journal article and Houston foreclosures? How should syndicators and LP investors navigate through these challenges?

Neal Bawa- Honestly, investors are making the same mistakes they made in 2008 and 2009. From what I’m seeing, limited partner investors have a herd mentality. They tend to follow the herd. Today, it’s difficult to find any positive articles about multifamily, but there are plenty of negative articles. For example, the Houston $200 million portfolio generated hundreds of negative articles, and now the Wall Street Journal has published a negative article. This creates a herd mentality. The question investors should be asking themselves is, as an investor and not a speculator, were you willing to invest in properties that cost 20% to 30% more 18 months ago, based on assumptions that have since proven to be wrong? As a result, those properties have decreased in value by 20%, and in certain markets, even 30%. However, during that time, the net operating income of the industry has either stayed the same or increased. Most markets have seen an increase, while some have remained stable. So as an investor, if I were to ask you this question, “Is today a better time to buy than 18 months ago?” there is only one answer. It has to be a better time. It absolutely has to be a better time because, as an investor, you are buying into a business whose income has stayed the same or gone up, while its price has come down by 25%. Therefore, buying it today is significantly more profitable than buying it 18 months ago. However, I don’t see investors reacting in this manner due to the herd mentality. They think that because things went wrong in the last 18 months, they shouldn’t be buying today. But aren’t these the same investors who attend every cocktail party and repeat the famous words of Warren Buffett, which are, “When others are fearful, be greedy? When others are greedy, be fearful”? Today, when others are fearful, isn’t this the time to be greedy? Isn’t Warren Buffett being greedy at this point? We often see investors quoting these wonderful insights from brilliant people like Warren Buffett but not actually following their instructions. I would challenge you with this: Why would you not buy something that hasn’t lost any of its shine, beauty, necessity, or fundamentals but is simply priced lower? Contrarianism is required at this point in time to fully understand the industry, and I don’t think enough investors are doing that. And that’s a little sad, right? Some investors even say, “Well, the syndicator should have known this 18 months ago.” The short answer is that it had nothing to do with the syndicators or indicators. Every business in the United States made the same assumption as syndicators did, which was that interest rates would stay low. Look at the value of tech stocks and PropTech companies; they are down 80% to 90%. Even tech stocks are down 20% to 30% (although they have risen in the last two weeks, so I discount that due to the upcoming artificial intelligence explosion). Cars are down as well. If you look at any industry worldwide and ask who was smart enough to make assumptions that interest rates would not rise, you’ll struggle to find a company out of a thousand. That’s how the business worked in 2021—everyone was forced to make those assumptions, which indicates the cycle. However, some people made fewer assumptions, and some made more. Many of my students bought eight properties between late 2020 and mid-2022, while I only bought one and bought back another one that I really liked from my partners (so I count it as one and a half).

Because, even with that one-and-a-half, one of those properties was actually purchased at a five-cap in a military town, which most people don’t like. They don’t like buying in a military town. But my reaction was, “I think this should be a five-cap market.” Everyone else is buying at a three-and-a-half cap. The price difference in a military market is so significant that the risk of buying at a five cap in a military market is now lower than buying at a three-and-a-half cap in a major market like Phoenix. And I have proven to be right. Even though my property has taken two hits from the United States sending armed forces not to Ukraine, but to Poland, which is the neighboring country. So, my property’s occupancy went from 96% to 85% on two occasions. However, it was able to withstand those setbacks, move ahead, and remain more profitable than most other properties. The reason is that it was cheap; I bought it at a five-cap, while everyone else was buying it at a three-and-a-half cap (for those who don’t know, the lower the cap rate, the higher the price). So, when you buy a property at a three-and-a-half cap, you’re paying a lot more than buying it at a five cap. Therefore, I made the decision not to buy a lot of properties during that time, and it was very painful. I was jealous of my own students. Everyone was buying a property every quarter, and I wasn’t even buying one per year. So, being human, I experienced jealousy, annoyance, and frustration. But now, I’m feeling a little bit better about it.

Overcoming Negative PR and Building a Strong Investor Base

Paul Senior- That’s awesome. I could love the sentiments that you spoke of Neil because right now we’re starting to buy. Now we haven’t bought it in a while. For the past nine months, we didn’t really buy a property. And now we have something under contract of 506 C probably going to close on it in the next two to three weeks. Beautiful asset in Atlanta, MSA. And we’re thinking the same thing. Now is the time that we got to take advantage of what’s going on. I think the PR on that article in some way just reflected one side of the article right and rub it negatively. But I think we have the onuses on us and also we have to get the word out there. That this is really a good time to invest in multifamily real estate because this is probably one of the best times we have seen where the property prices are at least a little bit. You can get in there. And you can get property at decent prices and you can make money on your investments going forward. So as far as you’re concerned, is it now the time you think you’re going to be a little more aggressive in terms of building up a portfolio based on what the market conditions are like now?

Neal Bawa- Yes, and I’m going to get more aggressive each month. So what is happening right now is prices. Let’s say a property’s value is $30 million. Well, we are still continuing to see its value drop by between half a percent and 1% a month. So half a percent a month would be $150,000. A drop of 1% would be $300,000. In recent months, it’s slowing. So it’s more on the half a percent side than on the 1% side as cap rates continue to uncompress. I’ve never been a believer in waiting to time the market. I have never succeeded in timing the stock market, and I’ve never succeeded in timing the real estate market. I believe in what is known as dollar cost averaging. It’s a stock market concept, but basically what this says is as prices fall, buy, and as they continue to fall, continue to buy. So by doing so, you will always have one property or more at the absolute lowest price and every other property at a low, but not the lowest price. And then you might have a couple of properties that you also buy on the up curve. When you average these across, you are very close to the bottom. Dollar-cost averaging is a fantastic concept and idea because it prevents paralysis. Clearly, prices have dropped by 20%. In some markets more, some markets a little less. So now when you’re on that downward curve and no one can dispute, no investor can dispute that you’re not on that curve, it makes sense to continue buying and buying and dollar cost averaging. When do I think I’ll be the most aggressive? It’ll be Q one of next year. So I believe that the bottom price in this cycle is going to be Q one of next year. The peak of this cycle was 2021. Q one. So the peak to the bottom is 24 months or two years.

Paul Senior- Awesome. Do you find your investors being a little more reluctant in investing, probably because of the negative PR that’s out there? Or do you still have a good investor base who is with you and get on your deals? As you start looking into buying more assets going forward.

Neal Bawa- I find them to be a lot more reluctant, and I think this really has to go down with really has to go to paralysis. The concept of paralysis, if you continue to hear bad news and nothing but bad news, it takes away your ability to be rational. Right. It takes its chips away at your ability to be rational about this. Right. So how is the situation today different from what happened in 2008? In 2008, single-family prices fell 29%. But even after they fell 20% and you bought after they fell 20%, you would have been very lucky today. You would have been very happy. Who cares about the fact that you bought at 20 down versus 29% down, right? And certain markets fell even more than that. The point is, once prices drop a certain percentage you’re in a good place. And that’s really investing is all about being in a good place. So we are in a good place today and our job is to convince our investors that is true.

Prashant Kumar- So that brings the most important question of the day what are we supposed to do or what are you doing to keep convincing your investors to continue to believe in what you are doing? It’s a psychological question. What is that we can do to have that confidence, and investors’ confidence back so that they are ready when we have the deal?

Neal Bawa- Messaging. I’m spending a lot of time with my investors. So obviously this podcast is not about my investors, right? But next Thursday I have an event that will have about 2000 people registering and that event’s title is about the coming crisis in multifamily and the coming crisis in commercial real estate. And since you guys are on my drip campaign, you can probably see what it looks like. And so I’ll go in, I’ll explain what has happened in the last two years sort of like I did in this podcast with some charts and graphs and things like that. And then I’ll basically point out that that’s what creates the opportunity when everything is perfect like it was in early 2021. There is really no opportunity because the market is priced for perfection, right? So the only time when the opportunity exists is when the market is not priced, is when the market has challenges. That is actually the only time when you get this benefit. And it’s extraordinarily clear if you look at the data that we are either in that time or we are entering that time depending upon how you look at the data. So one could say yeah, by next quarter we should be there. But I don’t think anyone can say the opportunity is still one to two years away because that makes zero sense given that the Fed is very clearly indicating that they have plateaued on interest rate hikes and probably will start to drop towards the end of the year. So I think the data is extremely supportive. You as a syndicator should be talking with your investors twice or three times as often as you were a year ago because a year ago you didn’t need to talk with them because they were hearing good news. Now you need to talk with them because all they’re hearing is bad news.

Prashant Kumar- That is awesome. That is super awesome. That’s a super awesome tip for a lot of syndicators, and a lot of investors to continue to keep their motivation up basically in terms of the marketing, I mean, I know you are doing a webinar a week from now and I don’t know whether this podcast will be released by. Then. But in terms of marketing, what are the other steps that you would take to spread this message that there are still good times to come? Guys, please remain ready. Whether it is six weeks from now or six months from now, what are the other messages that you are sharing with the industry?

Neal Bawa- Any deck that I have for any project, any property, any raise, needs to continuously point out two extremely important data points. Number one, the gap between the average mortgage and the average rent is the largest in history, right? And it’s massively accelerated after COVID one because home prices went up. I know they’ve come down a very tiny bit, but they went up a massive amount. So coming down a very tiny bit is really not going to make much of a dent. But what happened is interest rates doubled. Interest rates today are over six and a half percent. They were around three and a half percent, so they’ve doubled. And the doubling of that interest rates and the massive increases in home prices since 2020 means that the average mortgage is by far the highest in history. And the gap between the average mortgage and the average rent is by far the highest in history. This is an extraordinary opportunity. Show me a time going back the last 75 years when that gap was even closed. Even in 2006, when fundamentals were upside down, that gap was not this ridiculous. Every investor needs to understand what that means for the long-term and the mid-term future of multifamily. So that’s the first thing that I keep in front of my investors all the time. And there are a million charts on the web that show you how to do that. You can grab them from my webinars or just grab them from the web. That’s the first kind of data point that I give people. The second data point that I love to talk with investors about is as an asset class, multifamily was much smaller than Office in 2002 and was even smaller than Office by 2010. It’s now double the size of the office asset class. And it’s clear that it’s going to be triple or quadruple that size because the office asset class has extraordinary challenges, right? 20% of their customers have vanished with multifamily. We haven’t had any customers vanish. We’re adding customers. Right? So what is happening is institutional money that always preferred the office asset class because their average tenant has 1000 times the money of our average tenant. Right? Because their tenants are companies. Those people are jumping into our boat. Right. They’re not spending a lot of money right now because they see the prices of multifamily coming down. So they’re patient, they’re waiting, they’re not in a hurry. But from what I can see, roughly half a trillion dollars, that’s $500 billion, is moving over into the multifamily asset class over the next five to ten years. If all of that money comes in. Let’s say half of that money comes in. I’m wrong. And it’s not 500 billion, 250,000,000,000. It would massively raise the values of multifamily five years from now. I think those kinds of trends are not reversible. Work from home is here to stay. Most companies have accepted that people will come in three days a week. Well, their people are coming in three days a week. They’re staggering them and using 2030 40% less space. And so fundamentals are extraordinary at this point in time. And we have basically a generation of Americans, call them 20 million families, between ten and 20 million families that will never be able to buy a single-family home. And you might say, yeah, but single-family prices will decline. Show me any proof of that. We are 13 months into this crisis. Interest rates are at six and a half percent. Most markets in the United States have seen a three or 4% decline in prices. Why? Because multifamily, it’s a single family. Unlike multifamily 99% of those properties. Yeah, just pick it up from there. Okay. So a very substantial percentage of all single-family loans in the United States are 30-year fixed. They’re locked in under 4%. So that market is rock solid. It has defied everyone’s expectations of price drops. Except for a couple of guys that got it right, everyone expected multifamily prices to drop a lot more. They’re not dropping because people are just sitting on it and saying, I have a 30-year fixed loan, rents are high, and I’m not going to sell my property. So as a result, the markets probably dropped from the peak by 5%, probably drop another two or 3%, which means that its net gain after completing that drop is still a shocking 30 plus percent, which means that 20 million American families will never be able to catch up. And where are they going to go? I mean, their choices are rent or buy. This is absolutely the most hideous time ever to buy a single family.

A Piece of Advice by Neal Bawa

Paul Senior- Neil, as always, as expected, you drop a lot of nuggets here today. We appreciate you so much coming on your real estate cash flow. Champs real estate podcast. We’re going to shift here slightly into what we call a lightning round. And just one or two questions we may ask that’s lighter one piece of advice that impact your life and how you think it may benefit others.

Neal Bawa- I think this piece of advice is relevant to the times today. Right. And that is pushing yourself to be a contrarian, not just in your thoughts, but in your actions. I think there are lots and lots of armchair contrarians out there. And the advice that I got was to push yourself and actually do the things that don’t make sense. And that requires you to be pushed outside of your comfort zone. Right. The day that the Russian war started, Netflix announced that it was going to stop streaming in Russia. The next day, its price started to crash. And when the report came out, it showed that Netflix had lost 2 million customers. I went and looked in the fine print, and I realized that all of those 2 million were Russian. Right. And so once Netflix’s price had dropped 80% from the peak, I picked it up, and then I was able to sell it for about two and a half to three times the price in six months. Right. So being a contrarian, you’re scared because everyone’s saying, Netflix, its growth is slowing, and Disney is doing this and the Apple is doing that. But I’m looking at Disney and Apple and realizing that all of them are losing massive amounts of money, billions of dollars, where Netflix is distributing cash. So I’m saying, if a company that’s the if the only company in this industry that actually distributes cash is 80% cheaper than before, and every other company that’s spending money is basically losing billions of dollars, then this stock will come back up. Think that way and you will make a lot of money.

Paul Senior- That’s awesome. Neil, you’re such an accomplished man, and I’m so privileged to be talking to you today. What are some habits, or just one habit that you practice maybe on a daily basis, that you think contributes to the type of success that you have?

Neal Bawa- Miracle morning. I get up at five in the morning. I make sure that I do all of the pieces of the miracle morning, all six pieces, sometimes five because I like to go to a Pilates club, which sometimes is in the evening. It really opens up my mind. And then I like to read and research in the morning, right? Get my research out of the way. So I subscribe to lots of both paid and unpaid data sources, Bloomberg places like that, and I go in the morning and read them, and that starts to get me set. And then I also go and read a lot about real estate, Yardy, Matrix, CBRE, Marcus and Millichap, and a dozen other sources I go in and read. I make sure that I’m on their webinars, and I usually watch them at two Xs, so I don’t watch them live. So that allows me to get through them in half the time and get more content. Those habits really help because you empower yourself with education and you make less frantic decisions.

Paul Senior- Just kind of curious, when you compile it for each day, how much time do you think you’d spend, like, reading, gathering this information just to get the information going before you actually start your day? In actuality, other work is that half an hour is like an hour you spend on that. What type of timing?

Neal Bawa- Half an hour before I start, but an hour in total.

Paul Senior- Give me a book or two, Neil, if you may, that you would recommend to either passive investors or even active investors that you’ve read that you think would be helpful if you’re new to investing or new to real estate investing.

Neal Bawa- I strongly suggest Rich Dad or Poor Dad simply because the book is so easy to understand and so easy to keep with you. Right. Ten years down the line, you’ll still remember what Kiyosaki is saying. I think that if you’ve been in it for a while and you want to understand multifamily, just go to Amazon, and type in Multifamily or Apartments. There are a number of books that have four stars, five stars, and thousands of people reading them. Any of those books would make sense. Understanding the industry itself that you’re investing in makes a lot of sense. So if you haven’t read a book on multifamily and you’ve been listening to Prashant and Paul talk about multifamily and its benefits, then you’re really missing out. I mean, you have to understand the market that you’re in.

Prashant Kumar- Just the last question. Neil, I know everybody can reach out to you. They can go to your website and reach out, go to your LinkedIn, but what are the ways? How can folks connect to you and come to your funnel, give your contact information.

Neal Bawa- The easiest way is to go to Multifamily University, which is Multifamilyu.com. We do a number of webinars. They’re stored there. You can watch those or register for new ones. We don’t charge for education and have no interest in doing so. My boot camps business closed many years ago and will not come back. But that ecosystem of 20,000 people working together, nurturing, and learning together, is a powerful ecosystem. So multifamily U.com is a great place. Or you can choose to join my mission. My mission has changed. My mission has become it’s called Mission 10,000. And my mission is to build 10,000 townhomes for Americans. Single-family is beyond reach for me and for anyone else. The apartments are great. Many people are doing it, but people want to live in homes, not apartments. They live in apartments when they have to. So what you guys are up to is phenomenal. Keep doing it. The challenge is there are not enough people doing the middle piece, middle America. And so my mission now is to build 10,000 townhomes for middle America and build them in smaller cities. So if that resonates with you, send me an email. Mission 10,000. My email is Neil@growcapitus.com Grocapitus.com. So check out my company, Growcapitus.com. There are dozens of reviews there from investors, and you can connect on that mission with me, both as somebody who can bring equity to the table or somebody that wants to invest with us. So there are projects that we are working on right now is a wonderful time, by the way, because the land is cheap and you can keep it in the contract for 18 months. So I’m just delighted by the market out there.

Prashant Kumar- Neil, once again, thank you so much for your time this morning. We would definitely invite you again and we will talk to you soon. Thank you so much, sir.